[Tom LondonParticipant]

So I can see why it will be costly. Endless pouring over and scrutinising of the ex’s motives.

Again if you win will it not just be a pyrrhic victory? You spend 50-100k. You drag your ex through months/years of court. How will she respond once she loses? That kind of humiliation turns people vindictive and the family courts are more than able to then assist in shutting down contact within the UK (this would then be in her interest as distancing you will support any future applications).

The legal profession will of course tell you to fight. I really think you need to find a way, however you can to persuade your ex not to do it (even if that means meeting the costs of flights to the US so she can visit family)

[Tom LondonParticipant]

It is quiet on here. The Wikivorce forum despite being very pro legal profession is often a good place to seek out advice. Just be aware that they censor certain topics and will remove advice that conflicts with how they want people to conduct themselves.

Good article

http://www.wikivorce.com/divorce/DIY-Divorce-Resources/Law-and-procedure/Relocating-children-abroad-or-within-the-UK.html

From that I got “The reasonable proposals of the parent with a residence order wishing to live abroad carry great weight;

And then this

The more contact and involvement there is at the time of the application between the child(ren) and the non-resident parent and family, the less likely the application is to be granted;

The applicant will fail unless the plan is demonstrably detailed and well thought through covering education, accommodation, child care, employment, financial resources, immigration procedures and contact;

The stronger the evidence of a link to the country (whether directly by the Applicant wanting to return to home territory or the new partner wanting to do so or to seek employment) to which it is proposed that the family move the more likely the application is to be granted;

The existence of evidence showing that the applicant has been hostile to contact or denigrates the other parent or has made unsubstantiated allegations against them or flouted orders of the court will seriously undermine the applicant’s chance of success;

The stronger the evidence of distress to the applicant if the application is refused the more likely it is to be granted. This may include evidence from Psychiatric / Psychological experts;

The closer the case comes to an appropriate categorisation as a ‘lifestyle choice’ case the less likely the application is to be granted;

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Looks like it is me all on my own again then…..

Any ideas for a placard? Needs to be short but somewhere along the lines of “Gender equality for all” “Stop the theft of children from fathers”.

It is going to be one of the coldest weekends of the year but the turnout should include some very angry feminists. Angry that Trump is pro life and therefore denying women the right to determine what happens to their children. Imagine a world where you have no right to make decisions about the future of your children……

[Tom LondonParticipant]

I have not seen my kids in six years. Have been to court but it only made ex withdraw all skype and direct lines of communication.

I have resigned myself to the situation. To escalate in any way now would lead to trouble for myself and upset the children. The family who do get to see the kids report back that they are doing okay and are for the most part happy. My daughter and niece have the weirdest conversations which the niece then feeds back to me. Two 6 yr old girls dicuss me and the daughter who has no real memories of me questions her cousin as to what I am really like (niece and nephew get to stay with me and I take them out every few weekends).

Focus your efforts on changing the law. This generation of fathers robbed of their children need to be the ones to put a stop to this. No more state collusion with the abduction of children by one parent. The aparatus of the state needs to shift its focus from carrying out witch hunts against the accused parent to instead forcing parents with anger issues to behave responsibly around their children. To stop pandering to the idea that all women are somehow victims by default.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

This seems to be a common feature of the marriages of members on this board. Ex partners who were for along time unhappy in the marriage and who became increasingly abusive as time passed. Whilst we tried to muddle through and hope things would get better they were working on exit strategies and ways in which they could shift all the blame onto us.

Once they make the jump all hell breaks loose. It is worse thing that can happen. Suddenly police show up at your door accompanying your ex. You are told that she has made allegations which they are not following up on and yet the police are assisting her to move out. The police see it every week and know you are just another poor sod who temporarily gets to stay in the family home but very shortly once the solicitors and courts get hold of you, you will be homeless.

I am more than happy to help. Talk you through what you need to do and if you are in the London area I would be more than happy to meet up.

This is the toughest moment of your life. Get through this and you can manage anything that life throws at you.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Well done on not consulting a lawyer. Don’t whatever you do escalate as your ex will probably then withhold contact.

It sounds like you have done all the right things to maintain contact. Keep going like that and just live with the fact that your ex is acting unfairly. You cannot hope to bully or coerce her into doing the decent thing and nobody (courts and Cafcass) will force her either.

It is a resident parents right to act like a ****. If you can keep sane, still see your kid and avoid losing 10,000s to the legal parasites then you are a winner.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Looks like the legal industry is already moving to protect their lucrative market in the UK for child abduction:

MPs explore the effect on family law of Brexit

The parliamentary Justice Committee has begun hearing evidence from lawyers as the members continue their enquiry into the legal implications of Brexit.

Launched in the autumn, the enquiry is designed to explore the complex legal issues that will need to be addressed during the UK’s exit from the European Union.

Lawyers who have addressed the Committee at the House of Commons have warned of major problems ahead, saying Brexit could disrupt family law proceedings and cause problems for foreign-born families living in the UK as well as British families living elsewhere in the UK.The parliamentary Justice Committee has begun hearing evidence from lawyers as the members continue their enquiry into the legal implications of Brexit.

Launched in the autumn, the enquiry is designed to explore the complex legal issues that will need to be addressed during the UK’s exit from the European Union.

Lawyers who have addressed the Committee at the House of Commons have warned of major problems ahead, saying Brexit could disrupt family law proceedings and cause problems for foreign-born families living in the UK as well as British families living elsewhere in the UK.

So the lawyers come first. Their income has to be protected. When do you think Parliament will get around to hearing non resident parents and children so that their concerns can be included when drawing up new legal framework and a bill of rights?

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  Tom London.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  Tom London.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Crowd funding a film would work but then would a channel or cinemas agree to show it? Better to get the studio to fund it?

The Geldoff documentary is on Youtube. It is disjointed and in parts but it covers most of what you have described. The bias, the injustice and the courts. The bit that sticks out is where he talks to someone on the inside who knows how the law firms work and she describes the attitude of a mother who is withholding contact as a means to gain money.

Maybe almost an inside job is needed on the worst solicitors. Highlight the way they deliberately set out to ignite conflict and keep people in court. They feed angry women false hope when they first show up in the offices. They tell them how it is possible to remove children from a father even when he has done little to merit such a drastic action. If there was evidence of the legal profession routinely doing this to make money then maybe public opinion could be swayed and maybe MPs could be pressured into stamping out the worst practices of the family law professionals? It needs more judges, barristers and solicitors with a conscience to step forward and detail the abuse that they encourage and to do so on film. Alas they know it will leave them blacklisted and never able to work in the courts again. There is billions to be made from the abuse of children so do not rock the boat!

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  Tom London.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Look where it got Matt O’Connor!

I wrote to mine once but did not even get an acknowledgement. He spends huge amounts of time on self promotion on Sky News and any other News platform that will invite him and has a few select causes (mostly defence spending) that he cares about.

I imagine if I approached him in person he would probably tell me that I must have done something to deserve it and to grow a pair. He is proper old school military. Men are meant to go out and fight whilst the wives stay at home with kids. Whining like a big girl over lost children is not his style.

Colonel (bonking) Bob Stewart. MPs like him who were selected through cronyism (a perfectly good female MP was told to stand down for him) are the reason why our archaic family laws go unchanged.

Then there is Harriet Harman. Longest serving MP? 40+ years of her unchecked misandry.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Yes. Submit your own application to court. Read, read read. Then put together an argument as to why you think your child will benefit from contact with you.

With luck the mediation may be able to thrash out a deal. If not then you need to do more work to put together statement for court, then days off work too attend and you can expect to be treated appallingly by Cafcass. Stick it out and you will eventually get to see your child.

Your ex clearly thinks you cannot go through the legal channels through lack of money. Prove to her and to your child that you are more than capable of representing yourself and filling out legal applications. In reality they are not all that hard and for the most part judges are helpful towards those of us who enter court without legal professionals. Read up on family law. It is the judges chosen area of expertise so it flatters them when one of us “plebs” takes the time to learn the subject in which they are the experts.

Oh and as for the police…..tread carefully but for the most part they will just try to bully and intimidate you. Admit to nothing, refuse to talk to them. If they call you in for an interview it is only to further incriminate yourself, so attend but play dumb. Give them nonsense replies. On the flip side you can actually use them and if you log each time your ex communicates with you.If you then ask her not to communicate with you and she still does (social media or however) then you can start sending the police round to her new home, where they will warn her that a complaint of harassment has been made.

Befriend other fathers who are in this situation and we will give you sound advice as to how to behave. Never go your exes’ new home. Avoid communication where possible and if you have to then always have somebody else proof read any replies. Stick to written communication only.

It may sound scary but going Litigant in Person is a great means by which to empower yourself whilst sticking two fingers up at the arseholes in the legal profession who make their living from the misery of children. Put the fuckers out of business.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  Tom London.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by  Tom London.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Okay I am metting for drinks with the cousin and her husband in the next week. Pitch some ideas to me and maybe, just maybe we can get him to run with something. A collection of video diaries could be good but if any of you are in court then it is likely that they would not want to touch the videos through fear of the courts fining them. The media seems to be terrified of the family courts.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Video journal is great but getting that out to a wider audience would be so much better. I wish Bob Geldoff would do something again. His Channel 4 documentary managed to put across the message so well but that was more than a decade ago and it feels like our cause is now even further from peoples minds now.

If only a director would put out a film like Philomena. A film that highlighted the abuse by the Irish state and church and drew attention to the organised abduction of children from mothers. An otherwise ambivalent UK public got to see directly how one woman and her child’s life were affected.

Right now us fathers and our children are the forgotten millions. The rest of society does not care as it does not directly affect them.

It has all gone quiet and there almost seems to be an agreed media blackout on stories about us.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

The sad thing is that you can make the best case ever but unless your ex is close to being sectioned under the mental health act then Cafcass will give her a free pass.

Just keep on pushing what a good father you are and drop any allegations against the ex.

Cafcass mostly asked me questions about the children. Wanted to assess what my knowledge of them was like and how involved I was. By the time Cafcass got around to seeing me it was already 6 months in to my ex stopping contact so she had succeeded in creating a distance.

It is going back 5 years but Cafcass focussed heavily on a Child psychiatrists report that my ex had paid for. She took my son to repeat sessions and despite the psychiatrist finding nothing adverse they kept on going over the allegations that she had made to him that my son was suffering due to the breakup and I would only make things worse.

Cafcass can be like that. Very focussed on negatives

[Tom LondonParticipant]

Ask your solicitor for an approximation of how many fathers are successful in stopping such moves.

I am of the impression that it is pitifully low. That 50k would see you right for a while if you relocate.

[Tom LondonParticipant]

When you can see the application for contact is going to be refused and the judge starts spouting the usual line of “best interests of the children”, that is when you stop the judge in full flow and correct them. Tell them it is not in the best interest of the children and what they are doing amounts to “state sanctioned child abuse”.

The judges love that but please note it may see them slap you down with a section 91 order banning you from any further applications as the last thing they want is mere mortals calling them out as child abusers when usually all they have is barristers and legal professionals kissing up to them and calling them “your honour”.

If they are going to take your children them call them out for it.Don’t go silently.

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