[NHuntParticipant]

Hey Rory,

You seem to have figured out the system (or lack of) quite quickly. Court is a good starter but the mother will learn that it doesn’t mean anything quite quickly. Even of CAFCASS and the courts give you visitation she does no have to agree – but it is the road you must travel and hope she plays ball.
For me the big questions where: Why did my ex automatically get the kids after we split and why didn’t I negotiate better with the ex when I realised she held all the cards.

Good luck dude! the system is designed to separate you from your kids and we have to fight everyday.

[NHuntParticipant]

Hi Timolf,
Here are the simple answers as I see it.
1. Never get a solicitor unless you have loads of time and money to waste. Representing yourself is the only way to be in control of any court proceedings.
2. Mediation is always the first step before family court (I believe all jurisdictions in England require it, or an attempt prior to starting the first hearing).
3. No – the resident parent has freedom to choose who the child sees when they are with them. Unless there are obvious legal or safety issues which the court must stipulate – big stretch that.

You are using the term Consent Order in very general terms. A consent order is not legally binding – not with the CSA/CMS and will need to be validated with the family courts. Civil Courts and Family Court do not connect and what you really have is a agreement with the Ex that she can change at any time because she has residency. In regards to maintenance it is only valid for one year and she can change it anytime. Visitation is an more difficult issue to explain – there are not real rules to enforcing any order in the family courts.

The visitation you have appears to be far more than 90% of dads on this site and I would give a limb to have the same consistant visitation.

[NHuntParticipant]

The bigger question here is – why did you leave without your son if the mum was unfit? For me it was the gender role of thinking the kids must stay with mum. This is the same thought the court has… very hard to beat.

NEVER USE A SOLICITOR. Not sure why this keeps coming up? I suppose it is just our assumption that the family court is organised and fair – therefore a solicitor will be able to give advice. The family court is ramshackle and evil without any rhyme or reason to their decisions. And the best thing is: their orders don’t mean anything and the mother can just ignore them.

It is not that expensive to file your own C100 and represent yourself. I think you should seriously discuss it with your ex as a last resort. Try and be honest and open with your ex about why you have to go to court if she does not allow you to see the kids.
I don’t wish anyone to go through what the rest of us have by thinking the court will solve the issue.

But, the more people who start court cases may be the only way the government sees the problem with the system.

[NHuntParticipant]

Hi Christine,
Sounds like the courts have already sided in her favour. This is wrong in so many way but exactly what all the rest of us have faced.

CAFCASS only act on the orders of the court and have to be instructed by a judge. The judge would have made an order with an exact direction for CAFCASS. Check what that was and then contact the judge in the first instance. Remember, even if the judge rules for longer visitation, the mum may not accept.

Also, as the grand parent you have the right to see the kids too. This may mean your own court hearings but you are entitled. Also, also, as a woman you are in a better position than a man to help change these crazy laws.

W

[NHuntParticipant]

Paul,

I meant that the mother will try and connect the divorce with the visitation. They are not the same thing and nothing should intersect (ie My ex said giving her the house would go a long way to me seeing the kids and the children need to have a father who provides for the mother).
It was more of a concern that anything else.

Good luck and I hope they get to see you very soon.

[NHuntParticipant]

Trev,

Every other weekend and one night during the week is the default setting for courts and solicitors. It doesn’t work… You need to push that the “wishes and feelings” of the child have not been considered by the judge and this needs further review.

best of luck – the courts are a shame!

[NHuntParticipant]

Tommy,
Play by the rules of the court and don’t assume that everything a solicitor says is fact. But, do your research as the financial hearings can have the outcome predicted (unlike family court). Like everything it all about negotiation.

I was threatened with court costs quite a few times and threatened it back a couple time too. Nothing happened to either of us but we also didn’t push it too far.

[NHuntParticipant]

Simon,
This is horrible.
Social services is one of the most horrible organisations so afraid of the mother… All the organisations are anti-dad in a way we can only imagine.
Have you tried asking the judge to speak with the kids directly? They are able to save themselves but the ages might be an issue. In time they will be able to choose.

As you are presenting yourself (which is right thing to do) you can ask the court to speak to the children through CAFCASS or directly. This happened a few times during my many cases. You may need to prove the children’s maturity first with evidence that they are able to represent themselves. 13-14 is the normal age for them to be heard. But the law is all about the children’s “Wishes and Feelings” and eventually they will have to listened to by the court. You would only be speeding that up.

Keep fighting and continue to gather evidence and remember to smile when you see your kids. oh, and video every conversation or moment you are near your ex. Anything can happen now… she will start to take advice from one of her lowlife buddies and mother learn how to play the system very quickly (it isn’t hard for the mother actually).

Good luck

[NHuntParticipant]

Hey,
Depending on the financial situation you might be able to manipulate the situation into a pay-per-view scenario. After your accident I dont know where you are with the incoming finances… but…
For example, if you have a limited company or work for yourself it is quite easy to pay a “reasonable” fee for your children. If you are employed, you are gonna get stung by the CMS. If there is a way to reach an agreement for money, called a Family Based Arrangement, then you may be in more control of the next steps. Has she already called the CMS? If so, there is very little chance you can negotiate or get the case closed (but has happened). The CCA/CMS are an evil organisation designed to separate you from you children.
My ex just wanted money! For some reason she thought I was rich, even after she took every asset and banked cash, she still thought I was hiding more. I was never going to win the argument. IF only I had more money – I would have paid it to keep seeing my kids.

The only thing I can say is to be sure to separate the divorce from visitation. They are totally different things and she will probably try and make them one thing. Also, remember that any agreement to see the kids is only temporary. As the mother she can change her mind at anytime and you would have to start court action for any chance to see the child. Step lightly and think of the child first.
It is never easy – but you know here better than anyone else. Good luck.

[NHuntParticipant]

Jake,
remember that visitation is the most important thing and this arrangement is not forever. Your daughter so young and there are so many years ahead for all of you.
I am really glad to hear you have something to build from! Nice one!!!!!

[NHuntParticipant]

My advice (and this is just my advice) is to accept her offer and get it in writing, then explain to her that it is unreasonable/confusing for your daughter to carry on like this into the future. I would represent myself in court and never bother with solicitors. You can file your own c100 (loads of guidance on the site).

No matter what, you can never lose contact with your daughter and accept everything she gives you if you can. But, she is gonna call the shots from here on out and you need to manage it as best you can.

Visitation and maintenance do not have any connection in the eyes of the law – and arguing it will take you down a dead end. Unless… are you in a situation to be able to control visitation with money????

[NHuntParticipant]

I don’t exactly know the whole ins and outs of financial law – but I do know what happened to me. Yes, ANY asset or company owned by either of you is part of the marriage. My limited company was dissolved because she managed to get half of it.

But the key is the negotiation, I would suspect. One would also think that if you got the inheritance after you divorced then she is not entitled to anything, if you got it while you are married… it may be a tough one to fight other than down play the amount??

Sorry I cant be of more help.

[NHuntParticipant]

Hey Paul,

I would suggest reaching out to your kids directly. They are of an age to make their own decision – within the eyes of the court anyway. They need to speak to you without the mother and they don’t need the mother permission to do that. 14 is usually about the consent age. the courts use and expression called “wished and feelings of the children” and they determine the age a child can give their own feelings is about 14 (older for girls apparently). My daughters were 12 and 14 when the judge asked them their thoughts – this was after almost 10 years of alienation against me. I don’t know what I could have done differently but my kids were too young to make their own opinion, your kids are not.

Separate the kids from the financials ASAP. They are not the connected in any way, legally – just when your ex wants it to be.

Good luck dude!

[NHuntParticipant]

Jake,
The system is against us but we cant let it beat us. Visitation is the best way to have a meaningful relationship and the mother knows it.
Perhaps there is a way you can influence her decision making? Does she have a new partner and you could baby sit? Look for options outside of court as soon as you can – court may be a way to start a dialogue with her?
I don’t know what the answer is but I wanted to give an honest opinion.
Good Luck and remember to focus on the needs of your daughter in court.

[NHuntParticipant]

Hey Jake,
With the age of the daughter you ex will probably win the argument about overnights (in actual fact, she can just disagree with the judge and refuse, even if they make an order for it).
My ex, intentionally made the visitation so difficult for me the same way yours is. I had to travel from London to Skegness, of all places, to see my kids one day week – which changed often.

My advice is to never stop fighting, but be prepared to lose this little battle to win the war later. This is a long road to travel and you have done all the right steps so far! Making a decent enough relationship with your ex would be advantageous as she hold the cards – and will until your daughter can answer for herself. The court will expect you to move mountains to see your daughter for even a minute, while mum can exploit the situation causing untold harm on the child.

Never lose contact with your daughter even if you lose overnights in court and don’t get angry in front of anyone.

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